East Meets West 219 – Why sandwiches suck

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Tom and Roger discuss why sandwich shops are always bad, whether the Scott Pilgrim movie is good, and what’s with Internet ads these days.

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Sean O'Hara

I don't know what's the matter with San Francisco, but out here in the DC suburbs, I have three good family-owned sandwich shops — one deli and two pizzerias that serve subs — within a mile of me, along with a Quiznos and Jersey Mike's and two supermarket delis. The delis and Jersey Mike's not only have good meat, but they slice it in front of you when you order.

However, Subway is the devil. Pressed meat and tasteless vegetables on extruded foam is not a sandwich.
dougwalk

Roger, this probably sounds whiny but could I talk you out of using the word retarded (9:20 into the show)? In the very same fashion as I'm sure you wouldn't use the “N” word using the “R” word (http://www.r-word.org/) is patently offensive to those of us with children who actually are diagnosed as mentally retarded. I'm not saying don't use the word, please use it correctly, in proper context & not as a synonym for stupid or messed up or something along those lines.

I hope you understand.
http://rvillegas.org Roberto Villegas

Compared to The Expendables, I think Scott Pilgrim will get a lot of “word of mouth” promotion and will probably be a movie that is more tuned to getting its money in the long run. I think in the coming weeks, it will get the people who already saw The Expendables and have heard the buzz on Scott Pilgrim.
jeffreyjjohnson

Tom, your description of Scott Pilgrim was pretty much word for word the description I have been using. While I would not say it is a great movie, it was the most fun I have had in a very long time at the movie theater. When I have been recommending the movie (and have done so to as many people as I can) I use the term “fun” and then explain that it is not that it is a wonderful movie but I had a great time watching it. I think it is very similar to “The Princess Bride”. This was just enjoyable, no deep thought or meaning behind it just a good time the same way with Scott. While we can put more meaning behind things we don't always need to. I don't always need to watch Inception or the original Matrix or even the original X-Men, sometimes a cigar is just a cigar (doesn't really apply but have always wanted to say that).

As for your talk about which is more important in a resturant, I have to say it totally depends on why I am there and my mood. There are times when I could not care less about the environment but am looking for GREAT food and other times I am there for the company and the place and don't necessarily even notice the food. It is very situational. Eating can be such a social activity that the food is more then over shadowed by everything else but if the activity is the actual eating then I may drive well out of my way for it.

Just my two cents.
http://www.rightsideoftech.com russ960

Doug, I'm glad you mentioned that I was just about to post the same response. The use of that word is a huge pet peeve for me. I hope he will consider these comments to avoid the word.
http://www.rightsideoftech.com russ960

Probably the best sandwich place I like is all the way in Colorado so I don't get it often. The Gangster from Deli Zone (http://www.delizone.net) is the bomb. In Austin my favorite is the Corned beef sandwich from Katz's. Come to think of it I've never had a bad kosher corned beef sandwich.
Adam

I tend find service sticks in my mind over food quality (unless it really is terrible). Strangely sometimes I will – looking back at a visit some time after the fact – even remember the food as better than it was because of a good experience. Same goes for cafes where, while the coffee might not be absolutely perfect, the friendly banter with the staff makes the place somewhere I want to frequent.
dbrodbeck

Yeah, in it's proper sense I have no issue with it. As some sort of throw away line I have an issue, like the word 'autistic' or 'aspergers' (my son is high functioning autistic, and I have no problem using it to describe him, I have a problem when people use is as a a pejorative).
dbrodbeck

Sandwiches? Go to Schwartz's in Montreal. It has only been there for 80 years… They have resisted and rejected the idea of franchising their business. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schwartz's I make a pilgrimage there each time I visit my favourite Canadian city.
http://mjpilon.tumblr.com mjpilon

I second that. A trip to Montreal isn't complete without a visit to Schwartz's. I live 15 minutes away by foot and go as regularly as I can. Best smoked meat sandwich money can buy.

I am also a big fan of a local chain here in Montreal called Dagwood's. The nice thing about this chain is that they don't skimp on the quality of the meats. The meats are sliced right in front of you when you order as is the cheese. Good quality stuff and it makes all the difference. I can't go to Subway anymore after going there.
antihush

When you guys talk about all the guests that you had for EMW. Did you ever had Wilson Tang on the show? It seems like he's always the political one when he's on the404. He seems to have more stuff to say that doesn't really fit the 404 format. Would you guys ever invite him as a guest? I hope Justin's appearance didn't ruin his or Jeff's chances?
coolb

I thought Scott Pilgrim was ok. I think because of all the hype and reviews I'd seen from people online before I saw it for myself that my expectations might have been too high and so I was underwhelmed. I still enjoyed it and thought it was a good movie tho.
http://www.dxstuff.com/ ddawg

Hey guys! Just wanted to toss in my two cents regarding ads. I guess first, it looks like we’re only really talking about the ads in audio/video shows (such as TWiT, Revision3, CNET TV, etc.) which only makes a small portion of the ads out in the web (including banner media, pre/mid-roll video, etc.). So the question seems to be about how an advertiser chooses between a pre-recorded audio/video clip versus a more custom message (usually delivered by the hosts/site).

I've worked across a few different accounts (as an online advertiser) and from what I've seen, the choice between a custom ad and a pre-made ad unit often comes down to creative restrictions from the advertiser, often due to the actual legal restrictions or the culture/strategy of the company. For example, a pharmaceutical company is required (and liable) for their messaging (making sure that it includes fair balance, proper terminology/language, etc.); the risk is too great to make it custom. Other companies may have a very strict internal culture or marketing strategy and prefer to control their messaging. Perhaps they’ve tested different creative ad messages (varying in language, tone, voice, etc.) and discovered that a certain one works best against their target audience. Also, oftentimes pre-made spots may have already been created for the campaign (other sites in the campaign may have required a pre-recorded :15/:30/:60 spot). Finally, with certain sites, there may be tighter rules between the editorial staff and advertisers, where the site itself would prefer a pre-recorded message.

It really depends on the advertiser (not necessarily the ad agency but often the company's marketing team). Sometimes custom messaging is exactly what is wanted. Integration is always a buzz word in the ad industry. When it comes to long-form shows (whether it’s on TV or on the web), there’s a relationship (and a degree of trust) between the audience and the host(s); getting the hosts to personally vouch and speak about the product is often shown to be more effective than a pre-recorded “corporate” ad spot.

I guess my point is, there are so many variables and parties involved in the digital ad industry that we're going to continue to see many different types of ads throughout the web; it won't necessarily converge or be limited to a simple formula or a single ad type. The digital ad industry is still relatively new as well and as we continue to gain learnings from research and evolve the way we use the web, we'll continue to see ads change and mature in its delivery, relevance, and targeting.
http://www.dxstuff.com/ ddawg

On another note, if you enjoyed Scott Pilgrim I would highly recommend getting the video game (currently out on PSN, coming soon to XBOX Live). There's a few issues with the game (esp. the lack of online multiplayer, there's only local multiplayer) but overall like the movie, it was really fun and creative. The entire game is a throwback to classic 8-bit gaming; it's fun playing through just to look for game references (TMNT, Mega Man, SMB, etc.). The soundtrack is great too, several of the stage songs have been stuck in my head all week. Oh, and the ending, maybe not what you expect!
http://edykstra.pip.verisignlabs.com/ ~eriC

I think you might be asking too much of the sandwich concept. They're one of the original convenience foods and as such have some inherent compromises. When sandwich shops get too precious with what they sell they start eroding away some of what I like about sandwiches i.e. a quick, portable and reasonably priced way of not being hungry.

I also happen to think there's something to be said for the consistency of a Subway or D'Angelo's. My job takes me all over Southern Mass and Rhode Island and it's sort of nice knowing what you're going to get even if it's not made from the meat of animals that were grass fed, massaged twice daily and read 'good night moon' before bedtime every night served on the finest artisan breads. To me at least, a Meatball marinara 5 dollar foot long is worth exactly 5 dollars to me, and i am ok with that.
http://www.excalipoor.com excalipoor

I can understand why Roger didn't like because Scott Pilgrim is a jerk, which is role that Michael Cera has never been, because the book itself started with him being a jerk and you wondering why all the people around him didn't like him at all. IN the books, you'll eventually find out how he has changed in the last volume before the big fight, which is like a pre boss fight. However, in the movie, they couldn't really show that because the movie was almost done before the last volume came out and it would have add another 15 minutes into the movie, therefore the movie just show vaguely about how Scott Pilgrim has changed for better in a different way (by death) and you get to see how he right things wrong literally like you restart a level in a video game. There are 7 battles in the book,*spoiler alert* Scott has to fight Nega Scott before he fights Gideon, so they have to figure a way to shrink the amount of fights in the movie, so they changed the order of the fights instead and a comedy bit at the end which he learns to be a better person. I guess it's just that some people didn't think Scott Pilgrim ever learned anything when the moment he starts changing was really late in the movie. In general, I like both the movie and the graphic novels since they are pretty different of the timespan of the story, movie's story only took 2 weeks, while the time in the books go from winter to fall. It's different but both are equally good.
Maui Mark

Being in Maui we have a variety of Sandwich shops as Tom may know.
I really miss Lee's shrimp salad sandwich on a croissant. Some may find it lacking in taste. But so few sandwich shops use proper ingredients. While working in SF it was the highlight of many lunches.
On our next trip to SFO that and CNET are on the list.
Tom, if you remember. My offer for a fresh Haupia pie is waiting for your request and return to Maui.

Maui Mark